Basic Christianity: What is sin, a conversation with Keith Stonehart

Transcript

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In this episode of Balancing the Christian Life, we talk about the problem of sin.

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Welcome to Balancing the Christian Life.

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I'm Dr Kenny Embry.

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Join me as we discover how to be better Christians and people in the digital age.

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Why is sin such a big deal?

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I think all of us know it's bad, but how bad is it really deal?

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I think all of us know it's bad, but how bad is it really?

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We've all done it.

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If it's forgivable and it is then why should we be worried about it at all?

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I think, as Christians, it's almost impossible for us to see sin as anything more than an irritation or a minor inconvenience.

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And yet that's not how it's presented in the New Testament.

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And yet that's not how it's presented in the New Testament.

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There it's big and terrible and unable to be overcome.

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But hey, I prayed last night and I asked for forgiveness, so why even worry with it Again?

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As Christians, I think we are so excited about getting to the solution that we ignore the problem altogether.

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So in this episode I want to focus on the problem of Zen.

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This is another in the series of basic Christian ideas which I think deserves both attention and elaboration.

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I'm bringing back an old friend, keith Stoneheart to do a thankless task.

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To answer the question of how bad is it really?

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Keith is an old friend and an evangelist in the Birmingham area.

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I've talked to Keith a few times about his story, which involves a life of sex, drugs and rock and roll.

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Literally, I knew he would have a good handle on this topic, but please don't fool yourself.

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If you're honest, you do too.

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We're all sinners.

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Keith and his wife, kelly, are recent grandparents and he's just an excellent guy.

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So, keith, let's start here, what is sin?

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Oh man, what a deep question.

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I'm going to do my best to not go full preacher on you and just talk like a regular guy.

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I mean, we know the biblical definition of sin is missing the mark, right, but it's such a deeper concept than simply missing the mark, because there's so many things wrapped up into it.

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It's the motivation for missing the mark and I think that it's a multi-layered principle that I'm not sure that we can answer in one sentence.

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We know that sin separates us from God.

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We know that sin is the reason Jesus had to die.

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We know that sin is the thing that we battle internally every day, and yet I'm not sure we would all know it.

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When we see it, we pray to God to forgive us of any unknown sins.

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So it's proving the fact that sometimes we don't know it when we do it.

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I think at its core, aside from it being the missing of the mark, it is the deception of believing that I hit the mark in the first place.

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You know, I think you're right.

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I think one of the things that I would say at the very beginning here is that if we're going to define sin, you kind of have to go back to the first one, which has to do with Adam and Eve in the garden, and the curses of sin in Genesis 3.

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Basically talk about now that you've done this thing that you weren't supposed to do.

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Here are all the things that are going to happen to you, and it's a bunch of separations.

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It's a separation of God for man.

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It's a separation of Adam and Eve.

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To a certain extent, it's a separation of man for man.

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Another curse is that when you work, everything is going to get a lot harder, and it's a separation of man from nature.

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And really, when it comes down to it, sin is basically violating a law that God has put into place, and he has put laws in place that are both moral but also natural.

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Do you see what I'm saying there?

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100%.

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Yeah, do you agree with that?

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No, absolutely, and I think it does echo back to the first sin.

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Yeah.

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I don't think Adam and Eve thought it was going to turn out like it did, because you know what I mean.

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Otherwise they wouldn't have done it.

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They knew the rule right.

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The law was for the day you eat of it, you will surely die Right.

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And Satan steps in.

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He adds three letters N-O-T.

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Yeah, surely you'll not die Right.

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And that small three-letter word changes everything.

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Yeah.

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And I think in that moment they didn't think it was going to happen because they believed him.

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They were deceived.

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That's why I'm saying I think that sin is essentially the deception, that you didn't, that they thought they were doing the right thing.

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And I think nine times out of 10, when people sin, they think they're doing the right thing.

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It's amazing the way we can justify sins of all kinds of natures in our minds.

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Right, for the man who commits adultery, or for the man who views pornography, he can justify that sin in his mind because he feels that injustice has been done to him, he feels that he's been slighted or he has been withheld from or something to that nature.

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And so a man can justify that.

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A woman can justify the withholding of intimacy from her husband, believing she's justified for doing that, ignoring fully what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 7.

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And she believes that she's right for doing that, not seeing the sin that exists in that.

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So I think it boils down to a deception of consequences.

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I don't think Adam and Eve thought what was going to happen, happened, or what happened was going to happen.

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Rather, judas, I don't think Judas thought for a second they were actually going to lay hands on Jesus.

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You see Judas' response when he sells Jesus out, I mean he repents.

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I mean he goes to them and he says this isn't what I thought.

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Take your money back.

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I mean he tries to repent to them and they won't have it.

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But I think that is because he didn't really think they were going to lay hands on him.

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And when they did, it was now he realized he sinned, because the deception was in his mind Nothing's going to happen, we're going to get their money, they're going to run in on Jesus and he's going to vanish, like he's done a hundred times before, and then we're going to have their money and it'll be a big joke on the Jews and then we'll continue on and when it actually happens, the reality of that deception sets in, and so I think it all comes down to deception, and I think that's why, too, all comes down to deception, and I think that's why, too, that Satan is called the father of lies, the deceiver that sin begins with deception.

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One of the things that Paul will tell us in the book of Romans is that all of us have sinned, that.

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It's not like we have an academic idea of what sin is.

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We understand sin because we're all participants and it's something that we've done.

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If all of us have done it, if the first man and the first woman instigated, it is sin a really big deal or not, it seems pretty common.

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Well, again, I think that's Satan at work.

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Huh, how many times do you hear someone say and maybe they are truly in a moment exercising piety, and they're truly humbly saying I'm just a sinner.

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Yeah, that's right.

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And they're truly humbly saying I'm just a sinner.

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Yeah, that's right.

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And we all are, and we all are Right.

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But that phraseology has become so commonplace.

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We just accept the fact that I'm a sinner and therefore I don't try not to.

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It's going to happen anyway.

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It was the big deal.

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It's kind of like us when we make a New Year's resolution to diet and then by January the 5th we've blown it Well, because I messed up one time.

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Oh it's all blown, now Nothing matters, and then I go on the rest of the year not dieting because I blew it by January the 5th, I think sometimes with sin, it's the same idea that well, because I'm going to sin again, then I'm just going to accept that I'm a sin and when we do that we take away the seriousness of it, that it is a big deal, that every sin is a stripe on Jesus' back that I put.

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There is a stripe on Jesus' back that I put there.

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I think if we had real-time consequences for every sin that I committed, I got punched in the face Right.

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If there was an immediate pow, oh, I would probably sin a lot less.

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But because our consequences are often not immediate, they're delayed, maybe even to the end of my life.

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Maybe no one ever finds out that I did this sin or whatever.

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But God knows.

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And if I have desensitized myself to the seriousness of it to realize that it is a big deal, well then, why repent?

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It's not a big deal.

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Well then, why repent?

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It's not a big deal.

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And then you find yourself lulled into this complacency and I think that's where Jesus addresses the church and Laodicea that they're lukewarm.

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It's like they really have no opinion.

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They just well, everybody sins, come on, what's the big deal?

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I agree it's a big deal, but why is it?

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I mean, you just basically argued for this, which is everybody does it.

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Yeah, Nobody is too worried about any kind of consequences, because all of us bear the guilt of those consequences.

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Well, because the consequences exist, whether we are aware of them or not.

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That's what I'm saying.

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I think we've been lulled into this sort of half-asleep, half-awake lifestyle where we're not really awake to that because there isn't an immediate consequence often enough, and because of that we don't actually think there's not going to be a consequence.

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And what a rude awakening that'll be on the day when Jesus says depart from me, I never knew you.

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That's the reality.

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When he says in Revelation, liars, cowards, the detestable, I mean we don't think that's going to happen.

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I think that we have allowed Satan and the influence of culture, even within the church, to dumb us down enough to believe that it's not going to happen.

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That's the big deal is that we are blind.

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That's not what Jesus says, and so it is a big deal.

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I think what the reality is is that we're just asleep to that, we're just not paying attention.

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I think one of the things that happens to us because it is so commonplace, because it happens every day, because nobody's too worried about it one of the things that we're not recognizing is what we're missing because we are participating in sin we could talk about sexual sins, for example and what you gain is immediate gratification.

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I mean, you get what you want when you want it, that's right, but what you're sacrificing are things like an intimate, long-term relationship, a family.

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Yeah, like an intimate, long-term relationship, a family.

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You're sacrificing things that are of infinitely more worth and, ultimately, if you sacrifice those things long enough, if you sacrifice those things deeply enough, and if you come to embrace the compromises, you will get rid of any opportunity to have anything that's perfect.

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You see what I'm saying?

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Totally.

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Yeah, I think that's.

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The deception is that we trade willingly fillets for cheeseburgers.

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You know what I'm?

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saying Don't knock cheeseburgers man.

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Listen, I love a good cheeseburger, but if someone says, listen, you can have a cheeseburger in two hours or you can have a filet in two hours, you can have this cheeseburger right now.

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We often take the cheeseburger right now, right, and because it tastes good right now, it's filling right now and I don't think about the long term consequences.

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It's going to show up on me by the end of the week.

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You know, I don't think about those long-term consequences, I just think about right now.

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And so I think that that's why we don't realize how big of a deal sin is, because we don't see it right away.

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I got what I wanted and I'm satisfied for now, until I'm not again, and then I have to do it again.

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I've been beat up on by some other preachers about being a fluff guy, because I preach on the grace of God and the forgiveness of God, and I'll just tell you I mean the love of God.

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If you're someone that thinks that grace is a fluffy subject, you need to go back and restudy the subject of grace Because of this.

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What we're talking about that's what makes grace such a big deal is because sin is so egregious.

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It is such a big deal, and the reason why, the good news is not the good news, it's the best news, right, because I don't have to go to hell if I have this relationship with God, and that if I'm not willfully sinning against God, you know, look at the passage we often go to, and in Hebrews 10, he that willfully sins against God crucifies him afresh.

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And so we, we, we, we don't realize.

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That's why it's a big deal, because it is, people are going to go to hell.

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That's just the reality.

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There are people and there are members of the churches of Christ that are going to go to hell.

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Yeah, and I don't say that to be controversial, I'm just being real If you study grace enough, and you study forgiveness enough, and you study the love of God enough, this reality becomes even more prominent.

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I think that, especially with this conversation, I need to set up the problem, Because I think one of the things that we get too comfortable with is the sinfulness in our own lives.

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It's that idea that we're going to yeah, I know it's wrong, but, and whatever happens after that, but it's the justification for why sin is not a big deal and we all know what happens after that.

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But we've all had that.

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We have provided that those phrases, because we're all sinners, every single one of us, and I know how to answer those as well, because I've had to justify my sin, All of us do.

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But why is it a big deal that I'm justifying it?

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Why isn't God just kind of on board at this point?

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Because he's recognized we keep on justifying the sin.

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Why hasn't he just said you know what?

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I know that sin is a big deal to you.

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I'm just let's drop this sin thing, let's.

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Just because none of you had done very well with it.

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It's kind of like you know, giving your kids chores and the kids don't do the chores very well, and so you just drop the chore chart.

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You see what I'm saying I do, and you know what I chart.

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You see what I'm saying I do and you know what I think it's because he's a holy God and when we really understand holiness, holiness is a topic that doesn't get the attention that it should.

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I think we focus on so many different aspects of our Christian walk, whether it's our fellowship with God, or Jesus and his completed work on the cross, or discipleship or whatever.

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There's a lot of things we focus on, but holiness often falls to the wayside.

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For this reason, it's hard because of the reality that it imposes if god is holy, then nothing else is yeah, and we have to look at so okay, pretend, this microphone thing, this is God.

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So everything in this circle, this is God, this is holy, this is justice, right, everything outside the circle is non-justice.

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So, God's justice, this is non-justice.

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So, god's justice, this is non-justice.

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Now split that non-justice in half and you've got non-justice and you've got injustice.

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Injustice is evil, injustice is sin.

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Injustice is what we're talking about.

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Grace is a non-justice, grace is a non-justice, that when God extends to us mercy, it's an it's it's it go, it's it's we deserve.

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Yeah.

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Because we're out here, we deserve justice, and justice for us is death, but because we're extended grace, it's a non-justice that God extends to us because of our injustice.

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Right, right it's a big deal because of that.

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When you look at what it costs God to extend to us a non-justice, look at the cost.

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It's like you never really take for granted, or maybe a better way to word it you often take for granted that which you haven't fully appreciated or trusted in.

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If you're a kid and your dad gives you $5 every day for candy, you take for granted that $5 is coming.

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But when you understand that that $5 is all he has and he gives it to you every day, then it becomes more valuable and I don't think that we appreciate what it costs God to extend to us non-justice.

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And so I think, because of of we don't talk about holiness enough.

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It makes this idea of sin inconsequential.

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I think that's really the, the, the crux of it.

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We find ourselves thinking of sin as inconsequential when it in reality the, the consequences are are huge yeah, I don't know that's that's one.

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That's one thought I think, if you, if you think of sin as a separator, eventually, I mean and we talked about sexual sin and what what it separates you from sexual separates you from things that are more meaningful it can.

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It can sexual sin, will, will, will basically remove you, remove you from intimacy, which you and I both know that sexual sex is great, but, but, but there's, there's something that's yeah, but but there's something that's, quite frankly, more important to me at this point, and that's the intimacy that I have with my wife.

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There's an intimacy there that is more important, frankly.

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That's right, that's part of it.

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Yeah, I mean.

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What's it worth to be able to look her in the eyes and not look away, because you're ashamed of yourself?

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That's intimacy, that's intimacy.

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That's intimacy being able to truly reveal yourself, not this, this, that's right.

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I'm going to let you see me, right, and so you're going to look right into my eyes and see exactly who I am.

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Well, when we have that sexual sin present, that's the last thing we want to do it's a separator.

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It's a barrier and yeah, I don't want to trade that for anything.

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Neither do I.

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And when you think about what sin does with our relationship with God, it is that separator.

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There's obviously an inauthenticity that comes with it, but also that God himself has defined the rules of the relationship, and nowhere in that relationship has he said you know what I want to let you keep on sinning, because sinning is basically violating a moral law that God has given us.

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And I'm not using moral law as some kind of separator there, because I think the law that God gives us is moral.

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I think that's kind of the tenor and tone of that.

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But if you decide that I want sin to be a part of this relationship, god can no longer be a part of that relationship anymore.

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Do you see what I'm saying here?

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I do, I do, I think that's what makes us I hope it makes us see again what it costs God to reach down and have a relationship with us.

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It took the death of his son I said this in my sermon Sunday one of those Christian paradoxes To reach down and have a relationship with us.

00:21:35.845 --> 00:21:37.307
It took the death of his son I said this in my sermon Sunday.

00:21:37.307 --> 00:21:43.032
One of those Christian paradoxes the worst sin ever committed on this planet was the murder of God's son.

00:21:43.053 --> 00:21:47.740
The best thing that ever happened on this planet was the death of God's son.

00:21:47.740 --> 00:21:48.480
Yeah.

00:21:48.961 --> 00:22:02.397
And what you realize is that where those two ideas cross, this paradox, where those two ideas cross, is the cost that the worst thing became the best thing.

00:22:02.397 --> 00:22:11.788
And so I think that's where we have to get to see that, to understand how big of a deal sin is, we have to see the cost.

00:22:11.788 --> 00:22:17.580
When my kids both became Christians, I showed them the Passion of the Christ.

00:22:17.580 --> 00:22:19.270
It's a hard movie to watch.

00:22:19.270 --> 00:22:30.434
I still can't watch it and not cry my eyes out because as a sinner who has sinned man, I get emotional talking about it.

00:22:30.434 --> 00:22:32.881
But that's me, that's what I did.

00:22:32.881 --> 00:22:39.643
I did that, and so when you have a visualization of the cost of sin, then you see the big deal.

00:22:40.892 --> 00:22:49.459
The trouble is is we don't often see that when we partake of the Lord's Supper on Sundays, we are commanded to remember.

00:22:49.459 --> 00:22:53.664
Remember what we weren't there, we didn't see it.

00:22:53.664 --> 00:23:00.063
All we have is a visualization in our mind of what it must have been like.

00:23:00.063 --> 00:23:08.883
But when you have something like the passion of the Christ or the chosen, you get a visualization of the humanity of Jesus.

00:23:08.883 --> 00:23:12.897
He was both God and man at the same time.

00:23:12.897 --> 00:23:15.898
Speaking of the chosen, I forget what episode it is.

00:23:15.898 --> 00:23:18.679
He's talking to one of the disciples I can't remember which one.

00:23:18.679 --> 00:23:23.319
They're talking about the impending crucifixion.

00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:29.219
Jesus quotes from Isaiah.

00:23:29.219 --> 00:23:32.097
He goes but those were just words.

00:23:32.097 --> 00:23:50.883
Now you're here, you're real, and so until it becomes real to us, until Jesus becomes real, it's just words on paper and I think we have to get past the paper to see the big deal and to see why it matters.

00:23:50.883 --> 00:23:58.801
It's because God's holy that it matters, because there was a cost, because of His holiness.

00:23:58.801 --> 00:24:00.444
That makes it matter.

00:24:01.410 --> 00:24:08.998
The holiness of God is a hard thing for us to contend with because we just aren't holy and that comes as a result of choices we've made.

00:24:08.998 --> 00:24:11.445
And that comes as a result of choices we've made.

00:24:11.445 --> 00:24:15.017
And one of the other things we haven't really talked much about is sin.

00:24:15.017 --> 00:24:22.634
When you start laying it bare, it's, in my opinion and you're welcome to disagree with this it's selfishness.

00:24:22.634 --> 00:24:33.770
That really where sin originates and kind of ends, is me that I'm getting out of this, what I want and really what I.

00:24:33.770 --> 00:24:37.259
I said that sin is a separator and I think it is a separator.

00:24:37.259 --> 00:24:46.084
The natural consequence of us doing exactly what we want is we end up making things good for us and nobody else.

00:24:46.084 --> 00:25:04.300
But that comes at a price, and the the natural price of selfishness is nobody else benefits and you don't know this about yourself yet, but if you get everything you want, you will be miserable.

00:25:04.300 --> 00:25:05.383
Oh, yeah.

00:25:05.442 --> 00:25:06.124
You see what I'm saying.

00:25:06.944 --> 00:25:13.493
Yeah, when you see a child that's spoiled, they're not happy, right, they're miserable.

00:25:13.493 --> 00:25:18.371
They've gotten everything they've ever wanted and they can't be satisfied.

00:25:18.371 --> 00:25:21.478
Without satisfaction, there's no peace.

00:25:21.478 --> 00:25:22.319
You can't be happy.

00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:26.674
I think it is the selfishness that drives sin of any kind.

00:25:26.674 --> 00:25:30.442
When a man gives in to the temptation to use pornography.

00:25:30.442 --> 00:25:33.890
Sin of any kind when a man gives in to the temptation to use pornography.

00:25:33.890 --> 00:25:40.352
It's 100% selfish.

00:25:40.352 --> 00:25:46.007
I deal with a lot of people with this issue, not to say that I didn't have my own issue with it years ago, but the thought process and something always gets said.

00:25:46.007 --> 00:25:58.685
I wasn't trying to hurt anybody, nobody was supposed to get hurt, but someone always gets hurt, whether it's your spouse that gets hurt, the betrayal that it creates, yeah.

00:25:59.027 --> 00:25:59.869
It's spiritual suicide.

00:25:59.869 --> 00:26:04.863
You're sticking a shotgun to your chest with giving into the temptation to view pornography.

00:26:04.863 --> 00:26:08.837
What about the people in the video?

00:26:08.837 --> 00:26:10.000
Yeah.

00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:12.878
You're contributing to the death of those people.

00:26:12.878 --> 00:26:21.310
You didn't think you were going to hurt anybody and look at this trail of destruction you leave behind you Again.

00:26:21.310 --> 00:26:23.018
That's why sin is a big deal.

00:26:23.018 --> 00:26:26.957
You don't think it hurts anybody, but it hurts everybody.

00:26:27.940 --> 00:26:28.721
I agree with that.

00:26:28.721 --> 00:26:30.517
It probably hurts you the most though.

00:26:30.517 --> 00:26:32.211
Oh yeah, body, but it hurts everybody.

00:26:32.231 --> 00:26:32.632
I agree with that.

00:26:32.632 --> 00:26:33.433
It probably hurts you the most, though.

00:26:33.433 --> 00:26:34.715
The thing about sin is we get.

00:26:34.715 --> 00:26:39.664
I'm somebody who is a low carber and I have been for years.

00:26:39.664 --> 00:26:42.997
One of the things that I think is an absolute evil is sugar.

00:26:42.997 --> 00:26:58.601
I think it tastes great, but I don't think there's any benefit to eating sugar, and to me that's a really great way to think about sin, and I realize I wasn't anticipating I would be talking about sugar and sin.

00:26:58.601 --> 00:27:00.336
But they're empty calories.

00:27:00.336 --> 00:27:03.679
They don't treat any part of your body well.

00:27:03.679 --> 00:27:06.638
They don't help you at any stage.

00:27:06.638 --> 00:27:08.576
They just taste good.

00:27:08.576 --> 00:27:16.657
Sugar just tastes good, and it makes things palatable, but it doesn't make things beneficial.

00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:32.102
You know the funny thing too I'm a low-carber myself, and a lifelong yo-yo dieter right, the days of my youth whenever I was just shredded body and I could eat whatever I wanted to and nothing affected me.

00:27:32.102 --> 00:27:34.617
You know those days are long gone.

00:27:34.617 --> 00:27:40.740
I, you know you hit 25, 26 and you, you start seeing those things in the review more and more.

00:27:40.740 --> 00:27:41.623
Yeah.

00:27:42.590 --> 00:27:43.133
Here's the thing.

00:27:43.133 --> 00:27:48.450
So I I'll, I'll go a stretch without having sugar of any kind, sometimes three months.

00:27:48.450 --> 00:27:49.972
I'm in the midst of one right now.

00:27:49.972 --> 00:27:57.045
You know, I'm down a few pounds and I feel really good about myself, you know, and you want to maintain that, you want to hold that.

00:27:57.045 --> 00:28:04.723
So Friday night we got together with some friends and watched a movie and they did a candy salad.

00:28:04.723 --> 00:28:10.017
That's kind of the popular thing to do right now is everybody brings a different kind of candy and everybody puts it in the bowl.

00:28:10.017 --> 00:28:17.738
And you know, and I had my sugar-free stuff ready to eat, but man, that bowl was so tempting and so I did.

00:28:17.778 --> 00:28:19.486
I reached in there and I got a handful that's all.

00:28:19.506 --> 00:28:21.971
It was just a handful it wasn't like I.

00:28:21.971 --> 00:28:26.336
I made myself a bowl, I I just got some, a few.

00:28:26.336 --> 00:28:30.901
It made me so sick.

00:28:30.901 --> 00:28:40.636
It made me so sick and so you realize what it does to your body when your body hadn't had it in a while.

00:28:40.636 --> 00:28:41.838
It makes you sick.

00:28:41.838 --> 00:28:44.064
It's bad for you even a little bit.

00:28:44.064 --> 00:28:45.730
That's a great analogy.

00:28:45.730 --> 00:28:49.237
Sin is sugar 100%.

00:28:49.237 --> 00:28:55.384
There's no nutritional benefit, and when you go long enough without it, you realize how bad it is for you.

00:28:57.570 --> 00:29:11.829
Well, I wasn't anticipating this becoming a low-carb podcast, but I think one of the things that I do recognize is that some of the parallels include we celebrate with sugar while we celebrate with sin.

00:29:11.829 --> 00:29:12.791
I mean it's.

00:29:12.791 --> 00:29:20.612
I mean vegas has made a reputation off being a place that is called sin city, and for good reason, I mean.

00:29:21.212 --> 00:29:37.278
It basically caters to all the vices that anybody has an interest in, and so I I think, I think one of the things that that that we recognize is that we have often seen sin as something that is rewarding, but I don't think any of us would call that reward a virtue.

00:29:37.278 --> 00:29:46.439
Yeah, we know that in the end it's bad, we know that in the end it's not good for us, and yet it's all tempting to us.

00:29:46.439 --> 00:29:49.198
If it wasn't tempting, nobody would do it.

00:29:49.198 --> 00:29:53.330
Tempting to us.

00:29:53.330 --> 00:29:54.232
If it wasn't tempting, nobody would do it.

00:29:54.232 --> 00:30:02.719
So I mean again, I guess it comes back to that idea of sin management that I don't want to eradicate it because there's too many fun parts about it, and so I'm just not going to have that much of it.

00:30:02.719 --> 00:30:17.459
I'm just going to do a little bit of just on my birthday, just you know, and and just on a special occasion I'm going to, I want to take part in, in this because, hey, I, I deserve this I've been really good.

00:30:18.059 --> 00:30:18.701
Say that again.

00:30:18.701 --> 00:30:20.423
I deserve this.

00:30:20.423 --> 00:30:22.972
Yeah, think about that for a second.

00:30:22.972 --> 00:30:24.054
That's right.

00:30:24.054 --> 00:30:31.045
Oh man, I deserve this, and what we actually deserve is death.

00:30:32.471 --> 00:30:33.536
And we don't think of it that way.

00:30:34.010 --> 00:30:40.463
We think of us deserving the pleasure that the sin brings, whatever it is, whether it's food or whatever.

00:30:40.463 --> 00:30:44.701
And yet it's the death, it's the consequence that we deserve.

00:30:44.701 --> 00:30:48.499
Man, that's heavy, kenny, that's heavy.

00:30:53.346 --> 00:31:20.534
Man, that's heavy, kenny, that's heavy no-transcript, and so we treat that one with a lot of reverence because we can't get around it.

00:31:20.534 --> 00:31:21.316
It's the moral laws that we feel like.

00:31:21.316 --> 00:31:24.682
You know, those are the ones that we probably have some flexibility with.

00:31:24.682 --> 00:31:28.117
Being good doesn't mean we always have to be good.

00:31:28.117 --> 00:31:31.939
As a matter of fact, there are some times when we probably ought to be bad.

00:31:32.690 --> 00:31:34.237
I think we use a faulty gauge.

00:31:34.237 --> 00:31:40.140
Well, I'm not doing those things, I'm not as bad as that guy.

00:31:40.140 --> 00:31:44.258
I didn't kill anybody, right, I didn't kill anybody when I did that.

00:31:44.258 --> 00:31:51.750
Nobody got hurt when I did that of got hurt when I did that.

00:31:51.770 --> 00:31:59.423
And we have this faulty gauge system where we think well, it's not as bad as others, because murder is not the same thing as a white lie, but it is.

00:31:59.423 --> 00:32:08.893
It's not inconsequential and I think we have that faulty gauge in our mind where we do Just like you said we justify.

00:32:10.497 --> 00:32:12.962
And we're awfully comfortable with the justifications.

00:32:12.962 --> 00:32:24.041
Again, every time we've sinned, we can start off with I know it's wrong, but and it's that phrase that comes after the but that we've all filled in before.

00:32:24.041 --> 00:32:32.121
I mean, all of us have come up with a justification before we know why doing the wrong thing is the right thing to do.

00:32:32.121 --> 00:32:36.320
Again, not really the right thing, just the thing that we've chosen.

00:32:36.320 --> 00:32:38.115
You're going to say something.

00:32:38.930 --> 00:32:49.278
Well, I keep thinking about the example where Jesus is talking about the self-righteous man that is judging the unrighteous man.

00:32:49.278 --> 00:32:53.662
The unrighteous man says be merciful to me, a sinner, Right?

00:32:53.662 --> 00:32:56.199
I think sometimes, far too often, we are the other guy.

00:32:56.199 --> 00:33:01.422
We're not as bad as them, so our sin isn't as bad.

00:33:01.422 --> 00:33:03.236
We're not doing what they're doing.

00:33:03.236 --> 00:33:07.053
You see this a lot in the political realm this time of year.

00:33:07.053 --> 00:33:12.371
We are in the midst of it, where you've got finger pointing from other side and listen.

00:33:12.371 --> 00:33:27.500
It's really easy to get caught up in that, especially whenever you see people, maybe from the opposing party, saying they're coming from a place of morality we're voting this way because of morality and you look at the things that they support, you're like, well, none of that's moral.

00:33:27.500 --> 00:33:34.782
And so what happens is is you demonize them because their idea of morality is different than yours.

00:33:34.782 --> 00:33:40.022
But even your idea of morality is skewed because you're not putting yourself in the same category.

00:33:40.869 --> 00:33:50.715
Yeah, I don't support abortion, but because I don't recognize my own flaws, I just see theirs, and so I think well, yeah, you support abortion.

00:33:50.715 --> 00:33:52.721
So what?

00:33:52.721 --> 00:34:07.037
That is just as sinful as the things that I do and justify it's a faulty gauge system I think Paul talks about on 2 Corinthians when he talks about you know, you judge yourselves by yourselves and in doing so you err.

00:34:07.089 --> 00:34:09.692
And in doing so, you err.

00:34:09.692 --> 00:34:10.132
That's right.

00:34:10.132 --> 00:34:22.543
We don't like comparing ourselves to Jesus very much because we always fare poorly in the comparison, and that's really the only standard that makes really any sense.

00:34:22.543 --> 00:34:25.646
We have gotten so good at the sin game.

00:34:29.617 --> 00:34:31.063
Is it possible for us to live sinlessly?

00:34:31.063 --> 00:34:33.331
I wish this was a one word answer, but it's not.

00:34:33.331 --> 00:34:35.996
It can be done, right.

00:34:35.996 --> 00:34:36.856
Yeah.

00:34:37.358 --> 00:34:44.693
I often hear things like oh well, I sin every day, but you don't have to.

00:34:44.693 --> 00:34:46.358
It's not like there aren't other options.

00:34:46.358 --> 00:34:48.762
You can go through the whole day and not sin.

00:34:48.762 --> 00:34:52.092
You can go all week and not sin.

00:34:52.092 --> 00:34:53.974
You could go all month and not sin.

00:34:53.974 --> 00:34:56.778
It's not impossible, it's hard.

00:34:56.778 --> 00:35:10.351
And so, because it's hard and because I think human beings have a weaker disposition in regards to the flesh, have a weaker disposition in regards to the flesh.

00:35:10.351 --> 00:35:15.378
Paul in Romans, chapter seven, when he's going through the.

00:35:15.378 --> 00:35:23.360
You know the, the things I don't want to do is what I keep on doing, you know, and the evil that I don't want to do you know, I do it, you know.

00:35:23.610 --> 00:35:36.483
And he goes this whole presentation of his failure as a, as a man, because he says you know, wretched man, that I am not wretched man, that I used to be not wretched man, that I once was wretched man, that I am this morning.

00:35:36.483 --> 00:35:39.186
Who will save me, who will deliver me from this body of death?

00:35:39.186 --> 00:35:48.822
And so you go through this whole thing where even the Apostle Paul fell prey to sin.

00:35:48.822 --> 00:35:56.800
Because the reason that example in Romans, chapter 7, is so powerful is because it's in the first person.

00:35:56.800 --> 00:36:02.978
Paul is saying this is my struggle, the things that I don't want to do is what I do.

00:36:02.978 --> 00:36:05.619
And he talks about this wrestling and warring.

00:36:05.619 --> 00:36:13.802
He says in my mind, I delight in the law of God, but in my body I wage war against the members of my body.

00:36:13.802 --> 00:36:16.918
Now you can fill in the blank with whatever you think that is.

00:36:16.918 --> 00:36:19.117
He's at war within himself.

00:36:19.117 --> 00:36:23.340
The mind and the heart and the body are not in sync.

00:36:23.340 --> 00:36:26.340
And so Paul's at war with sin.

00:36:26.340 --> 00:36:29.677
He knows in his mind I delight in the law of God.

00:36:29.677 --> 00:36:31.523
In my mind, he says with sin.

00:36:31.523 --> 00:36:33.768
He knows in his mind I delight in the law of God.

00:36:33.768 --> 00:36:39.135
In my mind he says, but in my body I wage war against myself essentially.

00:36:39.215 --> 00:36:46.885
And so I think sometimes we look at when Peter repeats from Exodus, 19, 20, 21 in his letter.

00:36:46.885 --> 00:36:51.568
Whatever he repeats from that letter, saying be holy as I am holy.

00:36:51.568 --> 00:36:56.141
Talking about when Moses was given the law of the people, god expected his people to be holy.

00:36:56.141 --> 00:36:58.757
It's not a part where we think, well, man, that's impossible.

00:36:58.757 --> 00:37:00.936
Even Paul wasn't holy.

00:37:00.936 --> 00:37:13.588
And again this goes back to sanctification and grace and forgiveness and the things that were supposed to be off limits for this podcast grace and forgiveness and the things that were supposed to be off limits for this podcast.

00:37:13.588 --> 00:37:29.755
But the truth is, I think, in our mind, because we recognize that even the Apostle Paul, the guy that wrote half the New Testament, wrestled with sin, and the whole crux of that passage in Romans, chapter 7, is that I fight and sometimes I win and sometimes I don't.

00:37:29.755 --> 00:37:30.539
Yeah.

00:37:31.269 --> 00:37:32.615
And it's more often that I don't.

00:37:32.615 --> 00:37:37.494
I think we see that and we go okay, well, it's okay if I don't.

00:37:37.494 --> 00:37:54.815
You know, and and again, paradoxical uh statement here uh, if you're in a relationship with God, you do have the avenue of repentance and grace is there and forgiveness is present.

00:37:54.815 --> 00:37:59.233
But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

00:37:59.233 --> 00:38:01.913
I think that's where we get stuck.

00:38:01.913 --> 00:38:06.655
We look and see well, paul wasn't holy.

00:38:06.655 --> 00:38:07.637
Right.

00:38:10.106 --> 00:38:11.152
But it doesn't mean he didn't try.

00:38:11.152 --> 00:38:18.719
The fact that he talks about a war being waged between his body and mind tells us that he was trying, he was fighting.

00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:20.210
He just doesn't always win.

00:38:20.210 --> 00:38:26.197
And I think we take a statement that says, well, could I be sinless?

00:38:26.197 --> 00:38:27.891
And we go oh no, we can't.

00:38:27.891 --> 00:38:36.978
But I think the truth is we could, Maybe not forever, but I mean you can get really good at anything you try to do.

00:38:36.978 --> 00:38:47.077
I just don't know if we have the conditioning to do so in this day and age.

00:38:47.077 --> 00:38:51.271
Not that we have it any worse than any other day and age, right.

00:38:51.271 --> 00:39:00.175
But I do think that because we've desensitized ourselves to it, we've justified so much of it, we just don't have the fortitude.

00:39:00.175 --> 00:39:05.766
It's possible, but I don't think it's probable.

00:39:06.429 --> 00:39:08.534
Is it possible to be faithful to your wife?

00:39:08.534 --> 00:39:09.557
Absolutely, I think it's probable.

00:39:09.557 --> 00:39:10.420
Is it possible to be faithful to your wife?

00:39:10.420 --> 00:39:12.510
Absolutely, I think so too.

00:39:12.510 --> 00:39:15.791
Does that mean that people don't stray?

00:39:17.835 --> 00:39:18.396
Absolutely not.

00:39:18.396 --> 00:39:20.172
They stray all the time yeah.

00:39:21.326 --> 00:39:28.114
I think one of the things that happens to us is we think we are victims to our circumstances.

00:39:28.114 --> 00:39:40.615

Basic Christianity: What is sin, a conversation with Keith Stonehart

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